Ici, c'est la France! (Legion Wargames)

Not so green But I would probably appriciate the TM French troops !

Semper Victor a écrit:Not so green But I would probably appriciate the TM French troops !

ça va s'accélérer en 1959-1960. Le référendum se rapproche...

7 heures pour une moitié de partie, on se rapproche là de mes limites de temps non acceptables.

C'est vraiment long. C'est d'ailleurs pareil avec Tonkin. Kim fait d'excellent jeux, mais ils sont très consommateurs de temps.

The main reason I settled for 4 game turns a year was that France historically seemed to make 4 different specific offensives each year during 1958-60. I feared that making only 2-3 game turns each year would make it difficult for France to have time to act. I could, of course, have increased the amount of actions (ops) that could have be done during a game turn, but that would also just increase the time each game turn would take. It was difficult to change anything when the design started to evolve and adjust after the 4 game turn a year concept.

I tried to compensate this by streamlining the rules and the system. I hope I have succeeded in that. There is the shorter scenario one can play.

In Tonkin, I have cut down the number of game turns, the number of phases and streamlined the rules. Therefore I hope I have cut down the time spenditure by 33%, which still makes it a long game. I shall see when I test it.

...and if you have fun, the longer the better, no?

Lenght of the game is a fact not a criticism.

Lenght of the game is a fact not a criticism.

Well, I would agree in that length can be bad. It depends on if the system feels slow and unneccessary long. Then it is too long.

Hi Kim,

Do you plan (or someone else) to make a translation of the rules in french ?

Regards.

In fact the length of the game can be a very big problem. It is very difficult today to find a player ready to spend more than 4 hours with a game. So 14 hours, its almost impossible (for me at least). Another problem is, if You want to play it over several days, You need to have a place where the game can stay all the time. That's another challenge. It is great to design a very good game with a good theme and lot of tension... But its a pity if very few people can play it because its too long.

Didier69,

No unfortunately. I did once but the person who was translating it had to attend real life issues. So, there was no time.


Logan,

Yes, I know the problems. But why not try Cyberboard?

Kim, if i play boardgames, its to have a contact with a real game and to play in live with another player, its not to play a game through a computer. So i dont like to play boardgames through computers.

Kim Kanger a écrit:

Lenght of the game is a fact not a criticism.

Well, I would agree in that length can be bad. It depends on if the system feels slow and unneccessary long. Then it is too long.

Hey Kim,
No problem of time for me.
Ici is really quite an excellent game. There is a shorter scenario. There are quite other long games without such a quality for me.
I understand some people like shorter games but for me the quality of the simulation is far more imporrtant. And there are no much games on Algerian War too.

Logan a écrit:In fact the length of the game can be a very big problem. It is very difficult today to find a player ready to spend more than 4 hours with a game. So 14 hours, its almost impossible (for me at least). Another problem is, if You want to play it over several days, You need to have a place where the game can stay all the time. That's another challenge. It is great to design a very good game with a good theme and lot of tension... But its a pity if very few people can play it because its too long.

Débat intéressant. Quel compromis trouver entre temps réduit et qualité de la simulation. Cela aurait sous entendu de passer à des périodes de 6 mois plutôt que 3 mais quand on connait les incidences des évènements et leur chronologie, je pense que Kim Kanger a fait le bon choix sous l'angle de la simulation. Jouabllité - Historicité, quel bon équilibre ? A chacun de faire ses choix en effet.

birhacheim a écrit:

Kim Kanger a écrit:

Lenght of the game is a fact not a criticism.

Well, I would agree in that length can be bad. It depends on if the system feels slow and unneccessary long. Then it is too long.

Hey Kim,
No problem of time for me.
Ici is really quite an excellent game. There is a shorter scenario. There are quite other long games without such a quality for me.
I understand some people like shorter games but for me the quality of the simulation is far more imporrtant. And there are no much games on Algerian War too.

Tu as de la chance de pouvoir sortir un jeu aussi long et de trouver des joueurs dans le même cas. Moi c'est mission impossible. Le scénario court c'est quoi ? Il reste intéressant ? il tourne en combien de temps ?

Je dirai qu'il est jouable en 5 heures. C'est la fin de la guerre (59 à 62), c'est intéressant car tu vois le résultat final.

Semper Victor a écrit:Je dirai qu'il est jouable en 5 heures. C'est la fin de la guerre (59 à 62), c'est intéressant car tu vois le résultat final.

Concis, précis et direct ! Merci. Là pour moi c'est déjà plus jouable.

birhacheim a écrit:

Logan a écrit:In fact the length of the game can be a very big problem. It is very difficult today to find a player ready to spend more than 4 hours with a game. So 14 hours, its almost impossible (for me at least). Another problem is, if You want to play it over several days, You need to have a place where the game can stay all the time. That's another challenge. It is great to design a very good game with a good theme and lot of tension... But its a pity if very few people can play it because its too long.

Débat intéressant. Quel compromis trouver entre temps réduit et qualité de la simulation. Cela aurait sous entendu de passer à des périodes de 6 mois plutôt que 3 mais quand on connait les incidences des évènements et leur chronologie, je pense que Kim Kanger a fait le bon choix sous l'angle de la simulation. Jouabllité - Historicité, quel bon équilibre ? A chacun de faire ses choix en effet.

C'est clair que la qualité de la simulation est indispensable dans un wargame. Mais aussi parfait soit-il, si je ne peux pas le sortir faute de temps et de joueurs, ça ne me sert à rien.

Logan a écrit:

birhacheim a écrit:

Logan a écrit:In fact the length of the game can be a very big problem. It is very difficult today to find a player ready to spend more than 4 hours with a game. So 14 hours, its almost impossible (for me at least). Another problem is, if You want to play it over several days, You need to have a place where the game can stay all the time. That's another challenge. It is great to design a very good game with a good theme and lot of tension... But its a pity if very few people can play it because its too long.

Débat intéressant. Quel compromis trouver entre temps réduit et qualité de la simulation. Cela aurait sous entendu de passer à des périodes de 6 mois plutôt que 3 mais quand on connait les incidences des évènements et leur chronologie, je pense que Kim Kanger a fait le bon choix sous l'angle de la simulation. Jouabllité - Historicité, quel bon équilibre ? A chacun de faire ses choix en effet.

C'est clair que la qualité de la simulation est indispensable dans un wargame. Mais aussi parfait soit-il, si je ne peux pas le sortir faute de temps et de joueurs, ça ne me sert à rien.

Je comprends ton argument sur le temps et les joueurs dispos. Ma différence est qu'une bonne simulation - même longue - me sert à mieux comprendre l'histoire et ça vaut toujours, pour moi évidemment, le temps que j'y passe. Différence de vue peu conciliable avec la jouabilité mais l'histoire, c'est ma vie !

Fréd, j'ai t'envoyé le deuxième mail maintenant. Tu as recu les deux?

Si c'est à la maison, je ne pourrais vérifier que ce soir.

How is your game going?

Well. I'am currently writing my notes.

Semper Victor a écrit:Well. I'am currently writing my notes.

On attend ça avec plaisir...
Semper Victor, j'ai mis le Pierre Rocolle sur DBP sur mon blog.
;-)

Vu. merci.

Unless anyone has anything to add, I will soon make the living rules official and send them to Legion.